Best wishes

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• 93 Acura Integra 4 door 140k miles!
• Still runs when not raining, no drips, no rebuilds.

Also, I agree.... total the car... that way no one else suffers the realization that they unknowingly bought a severly wrecked Viper.

Would that collision have bent the frame so severely that a new frame would be warranted?

OUCH!!!!

Lance

He mentioned that if the driver had not turned the wheels to correct the slide they would have not hit the wall.

I guess in the millisecond or two that he had to decide what to do, do you really think he could have thought to turn with the spin?

The last driving school I did was with a Porsche. Vic Elford was the instructor. He said, in a panic push in the clutch, the brake, hold the wheel straight and then prey.

Its hard when someone has a wreck. I'm sure as an instructor you have to take a certain amount for granted. I got yelled at by Derek Bell of all people for doing the very same thing. I let the clutch out in second with about 800rpm on the tach. Since it was a 944turbo not much happened except for a little hearing loss from Derek blowing his stack.

quote:

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Originally posted by GTS Bruce:
Cut off the bent pieces.Weld in straight pieces.Could end up being straighter than the original if done correctly. Bruce

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Does this include regalvanizing the frame so it won't rust five or ten years later? Or just painting it black so it looks good when inspected once right after the repair?

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horsepower wins car shows, but it takes torque 2 win races..... 1/4 mile drag races are for fast cars, road racing is for fast drivers..... real men don't just turn left, unless they are driving sprint cars on dirt..... old racers never die, they just go to tractor pulls.

• I take the instructors statement to mean that if the driver had turned the wheel left (the direction of the spin) they would have missed the wall. Wouldn't that have just spun the car more?
  
• "he put in the clutch and I believe went down from fourth to third and then second and let out the clutch " "I Believe?"
  
• "As it were we hit with a glancing blow " Yeah, I'd call that a "Glancing" blow---not
  
• null
  

I was there. too. First hand. Very sad and very quick.

You know, great instructors are invaluable and some instructors get less than desired results. Then they play the C-Y-A line.

If the student-owner of the vehicle wants to post such a report, fine - it was his car. But while this sequence may have some value to teach in a class at PIR or submit to ASRA, for an instructor to post this "report" on the web smacks of a self-serving, "I did everything right", junk attitude. It's a false justification to reason it will keep others from doing the same thing - to post this report is sensationalism at it's worst and inappropriate to come from an instructor.

Fact is a novice student wrecked his car with this instructor along side. Sean didn't post the crash he was involved in, nor did he give report "for others benefit". I don't ever recall any of Skip's instructors posting such a "report" and doubt he would support such a thing. They're too Classy and responsible. Just like most instructors wouldn't want others to post such an incident, let alone promote it themselves.

I doubt we'll see Riddle as a Viper Days instructor here this spring.

quote:

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Originally posted by Vreracing:
The instructor said something interesting.

He mentioned that if the driver had not turned the wheels to correct the slide they would have not hit the wall.

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I'm with GTS Bruce on the frame all the way. Fatty can fix it!

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GTS Dean - Team Texas

It appears that the passenger airbag was turned off.

I wonder if I would try to steer into it, or reverse steer? I think my instinct would probably make me reverse steer, like the driver did. I don't know that I would have done any differently, or even that it would have helped to steer with the direction of the spin, because if you do, sure, the front end comes around, but you also accelerate or help the horizontal spinning energy, and then you would have to think about where it would end up if you go completely around, right?

edit-I've watched that crash many times over now, and it seems that the car would have just hit the wall earlier, if he had turned into the direction of the spin. (?) Also, I hope I always "feel" if I am grabbing the right gear, while heel-toeing it, listening/feeling the engine engage while matching the Rs' up, before fully letting the clutch out. I have done this ok on slower turns, but I would be just an armchair quarterback to say I would have/could have done it this way at that speed.

Anybody an expert on spinning?

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2001 GTS, Saphire/stripes. 1 of 86.

Colossians 3:23

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2000 ACR Black/Silver stripes, chrome wheels
Gabba Gabba Hey!

(It's the only way some mustangs can chirp the tires in second gear, learned that at bondurant)

Don't downshift in a turn at speed - weight shifts forward and rear tires break loose and you spin. kind of like using the e-brake on dirt.

quote:

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Originally posted by monnieh:
Why did downshifting to 2nd cause the rear to come out? Improper weight transfer? Too much tourqe?

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a Search Key is a terrible thing to waste __

Phil De La O / Frank Parise ran in the mid 1:06 best lap times at the race in Nov. Other Racing (not street) Vipers (Robert Dopp,Johnny "Yuma", Al Box, Bob Stevenson) ran bests of 1:09 and 1:14 and 1:15 and 1:15. All of them were gutted track cars, most with wings and major suspension mods.

.
http://www.azsportsracing.org/race/results/acs_or20021130.html
.

What car were you running 1:10 in there because I don't see an ACR beating that unless it has had extensive mods and race tires.
.

Viper Days is at PIR in April so bring it on up and see how it runs. http://www.viperdays.com/events2003.html

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http://www.viperdays.com/phoenix98.html

quote:

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Originally posted by FAST FREDDY:
this guy simply does not know how 2 drive a car. i have road raced 2 different kinds of cars at this track. the proper procedure 4 this transition is 2 late brake hard in a straight line in advance of turning into the transition (4 me this occurs at 125 mph). as u turn in u trail brake the car. as soon as u get off the oval onto the infield u down shift 1 gear (4 me this is a 4-3 shift). i am now doing 90 mph as i head for the next left hand turn. this process take about 4 seconds. by the way my lap times at this track were in the 1 minute 10 second range, the cars i was driving back then were a bit slower than my acr which i have yet 2 take there. i would appreciate if someone could tell me what kind of lap times they are turning there with their viper.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Marv S:

Phil De La O / Frank Parise ran in the mid 1:06 best lap times at the race in Nov. Other Racing (not street) Vipers (Robert Dopp,Johnny "Yuma", Al Box, Bob Stevenson) ran bests of 1:09 and 1:14 and 1:15 and 1:15. All of them were gutted track cars, most with wings and major suspension mods.

http://www.viperdays.com/phoenix98.html

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I ran a 1:10.49 in my nearly stock GTS in '98 the first time I'd ever been there. I had Comp T/A 230 R-1s, PFC 90s and braided brake lines. A/C, Stereo, full interior, valid license and inspection sticker... Ron Jr. ran a 1:05.7

The track must have been truly horrible the last time you guys were there, or else your snakes are using too much aero crutch and slowing the car down.

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GTS Dean - Team Texas

'96 GTS - EMI Penske 3-ways, Aeroquip brake lines, Dilusi brake deflector kit, HMS carbon fiber airbox, oil pan baffles, aluminum flywheel, rear X-pipe, '71 GTX exhaust tips, Simpson 5-point cam-lock

Car owners(Vipers) who want to experience open track driving (schools) should have completed formal instruction from a racing school that has good references. I recommend the following Skip Barber programs before going on track.
1. Two Day School
2. Car Control (1 day school)
3. Three Day racing school
4. Do a couple lapping days
4. Repeat 2. as needed

I know from experience the Skip Barber programs stress braking and shifting in a straight line. This is practiced on a skid pad in the 2 day school. In the 3 day racing school, speed is controlled and corner workers(instructors) provide feed back on all aspects of the driving line, cornering, braking, shifting, turn-in, and track-out.

Many of you may feel this is excessive but what is the cost of an accident?

Consider the following.
1. A novice driver on a track is going to be very nervous and their ability to remember a class room talk about how to take T1 or T7 is close to zero.
2. The Viper T56 and V10 when improperly used(lack of track experience or accidently going into the wrong gear) is a huge rear wheel air brake that will upset the cars balance. Two Vipers from are region have crashed mountain roads as a result of a mis-shift. Control of this situation on a track or highway depends on many variables but having driving school tools, can help save or reduce the incident damage. A Skip Barber slogan "In A Spin Both Feet In".
3. There have been many discussions regarding Skip Barber's instructors adding steering input at VOI7. In this incident I would expect that a Skip Barber instructor would have added steering as well as pulled the e-brake. This is what they are trained to do and they have plenty of experience doing the same in a Viper. If an instructor is not trained and well experienced at adding steering could be a pretty bad or good deal depending on how lucky you feel.
4. Instructors that jump into Vipers are taking a lot of risk and may want to consider talking(instructing) ahead by 3-5 seconds. Reminding the driver when to brake, shift, turn-in, track-out and limit application of power. I was with an instructors at VOI7 that stress not shifting at the high speed straight line entrance to the infield, shifting was at slower speeds before the turn. Braking hard and down shifting at the same time is a higher risk activity than hard braking and waiting until the car is slowed down so that if the V10 Air Brake is implemented by mistake the resulting out of balance would be more controllable. A racer would have completed the down shifting earlier(higher risk but earlier preperation for better exit speed) but us non-racer types need to remember that these open track schools (events) are not races and we are not race drivers.

I hate to see accidents!

The best Open Track Event "Viper Days"

My $0.02

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horsepower wins car shows, but it takes torque 2 win races..... 1/4 mile drag races are for fast cars, road racing is for fast drivers..... real men don't just turn left, unless they are driving sprint cars on dirt..... old racers never die, they just go to tractor pulls.